tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC October 2, 2016 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT
billion dollars in income but without post-1995 tax returns, that cannot be confirmed. trump today did not deny that story but did tweet he's the only one who can fix the tax code as president. his campaign released a statement that reads in part, "mr. trump is a highly skilled businessman who has a fiduciary responsibility to his business, his family, and his employees to pay no more than tax than legally required." as that news broke last night, trump was at a rally in pennsylvania, and he was mocking clinton's health as well as suggesting she has cheated on her husband. take a listen. i don't even think she's even loyal to bill, if you want to know the truth. and really, folks, really, why should she be, right? here's a woman, she's supposed to fight all of these different things, and she can't make it 15 feet to her car. give me a break.
give me a break. give me a break. >> let's bring in nbc's katy tur and cnbc contributor ron insana. katy, you've seen many of these rallies before. this news about these tax returns breaking at the same time he's on stage. >> well, he knew about it before hand because the campaign was asked for a comment from "the new york times." it's also interesting the timing, he had an interview with "the times" and started talk about how he's going to delve into bill clinton's affairs and hillary clinton's personal life. the campaign before that saying they weren't going to get involved in it. so you have to question what donald trump was trying to accomplish with that. was he trying to distract from this bombshell that "the new york times" was are releasing his tax returns or his 95 return, three pages of it showing it would be legal for him to not pay any income tax for 18 years.
it's legal so he's not doing anything wrong. but the man is running on his business record. he's running on this idea that we need to fix our economy, we need to lower the national debt, we need to fix our infrastructure, and the clinton campaign is pointing out he did nothing to help with that. he wasn't contributing to lowering of the national debt. and he wasn't contributing to helping fix any of the infrastructure problems we have in this country. >> ron, going on what katy said there, it is legal to do this. how uncommon might this be for your average, evidence billionaire shall i say who's filing your tax returns? >> most people create wealth by not losing money. they create wealth by not building businesses that have an actual value that grows over time. losing a billion dollars is not exactly a badge of a business genius and losing that billion dollars in losses to write off against income over time. again, maybe, a smart use of the tax code but it doesn't mean that you're a business genius. the other thing i would say with respect to the trump statement where they say he has a
fiduciary responsibility to lower the tax bill, these are his personal income taxes. he has that responsibility to lower his business taxes. these are separate issues, personal income tax versus how a corporation deals with its taxation liabilities separate. there is no fiduciary responsibility on the part of donald trump to lower his own personal income taxes. that does not benefit his company, his shareholders, his bondholders, or his employees in any way, shape, or form. >> fiduciary most often related to byes. >> correct. >> these are personal. >> and he has a constituency of one. >> so the question might be how the response is so far here, katy, from surrogates. we'll play sound this morning from governor chris christie. >> all right. >> what it shows is what an absolute mess the federal tax code is and that's why donald trump is the best person to fix it. he fought and clawed back to build another fortune, to create tens of thousands of more job, and this is actually a very,
very good story for donald trump. >> it's all legal. should it be? >> that's a good question. but it is and it was and we're talking about 21 years ago. if you didn't take advantage of it, he would have been sued. that's why maybe somebody doesn't want to put out their tax returns because somebody will distort it that way. i mean, the reality is he's ooh genius. >> a gene jus. i expect you'll be hearing that a lot, katy. zero taxes doesn't work in a presidential cycle. >> donald trump is running on this image that he's got better business acumen than anybody else in the country, that he can fix the economy because he knows how it work, look what he's done with his lizs. his supporters believe that to be true. they believe he'll find the right people to put in the right positions and make sure the xa economy is running and congress starts magically working again. listen, everything is more complicated than that and donald trump has offered very lit until
the way of policy and how to get these things done. the reason why his taxes are so relevant because it gives you insight into how he ran his business. >> decisions he made. >> the decisions made. is he as rich as he's claiming to be? is this just the man behind the curtain or is this real life? and this is showing us a glimpse of that and it certainly is on a glimpse of the campaign would like us to see, which is why they're trying to spin it in this -- in the direction by saying he's a genius. and if they did think he did such a great job with this, the question has to be raised, why are they not releasing his taxes now? >> it takes a certain genius to lose a billion dollars. >> or lack thereof. >> and if you look at djt, donald j. trump publicly sper prizes, he went from a high of $35 to 17 cents. it depends who is winning in this argument. >> this was postrecession, though, 1991, 1992.
>> that was the low in commercial real estate and so a lot of entities, whether it was the plaza in new york or others, really hit their nader in 1999. >> the 18 years that "the new york times" is saying and also every day if home flippers that do it as a business use this same tactic. >> anybody who has a limited liability corporation has a variety of tax advantages, whether write-offs, depreciation, other types of allowances you get from the government to hold against current income. you can use those. the average person, however, if you took a loss on your residential real estate, you can't write that off. he was using, according to all this, $900 million in losses to offset both past and future income. so it is a legal feature of the tax code. it doesn't suggest you're a tax genius. >> i want to keep both your big brains here but i know you have work to do today. katy tur, ron insana, thanks for being here. joining me now is nbc's kelly o'donnell in washington.
you were listening to that. what are if clinton campaign saying so far? >> this is one of those gifts they are trying to interpret this in a way that helps the hillary clinton kevin garnettment so they put out a release today, they called it a bombshell report, suggesting that it is really about trump having not the winning persona that he likes to convey but being capable of losing so much money back in 1995. so you see he apparently got to avoid paying taxes for nearly two decades. again, we don't know that for certain, but the math lines up that way. while tens of millions of working families paid theirs. he calls that smart. now that the gig is up, why doesn't he go ahead and release his returns to show us how smart he really is? on several layers this is useful for clinton campaign. they have been trying to get them to release his taxes. it is their argument, we heard it play out in the first debate, that hillary clinton suggests perhaps he's not as rich as he
claims or charitable as he claims, so this is a way to try to get at that, and this article, which, again, takes part of a tax return from 21 years ago, gives people some insight into donald trump at a time in his business career where there was more failure than success. that's useful for clinton and her team. >> three pages that are being torn apart right now. kelly o'donnell in washington, thank you. jai know want to talk about the strongest atlantic hurricane in almost a decade. jamaica, haiti, and eastern cuba are in the path of this storm. damage in some places could be catastrophic. wind speeds are at 145 miles an hour. and so far two people have died as a result of this storm. nbc's morgan radford is in kingston, jamaica. is the country ready for this impact? >> reporter: they're trying to get ready, richard. in fact, it's surprising how dramatically this weather has shifted in the past number of
hours. this morning we saw the almost eerie calm before the storm. in the past hour we've seen the skies open up, the rain, thunder, the lightning. in fact, right now, the kingston airport in jamaica has shut down as we speak. they're not allowing any incoming or outgoing flights to jamaica. this is as we expect that category 4 hurricane matthew to strike jamaica's shore bringing winds of up to 150 miles an hour. 10, 15, 20 inches in some parts of the country. is that that's why the jamaicans i've spoken to say they're trying to get prepared. i have relatives up the road and they said the bread was flying off the shelves almost as quickly as it was being stocked, people lining up to get gas, people stocking up on dried food, battery, bottled water because they remember what happened in 1988. that's when we saw the category 3 hurricane gilbert, and far lot of jamaicans here that's the biggest hurricane they've seen in their lifetime.
that shut down the country, no electricity for almost three months. they say we have a respect for how severe something like this can be and how bad it can get. >> beautiful jamaica buckling down there. morgan radford live for us in kingston, jamaica. i want to bring in wnbc meteorologist raphael miranda. you're my spaghetti guy here. what are the models showing you? >> they're not looking great for portions of the caribbean, especially haiti where we could see up to 40 inches of rainfall, richard. could be talking about devastating mudslides and flashflooding. jamaica as well and cuba not out of the woods. we've been seeing some strengthening, signs of better symmetry in the storm throughout the day. it looks a little healthier, more organized. we're seeing the spiral bands. we've noticed the signs of strengthening and the wizards pick up since the last advisory, now 140 miles per hour, a very strong category 4 hurricane. we're not expecting matthew to weaken much below category 4 over the next few days. here's a look at the path. you can see as we head into tomorrow and tuesday morning we're expecting a major
hurricane crossing, maybe making landfall in haiti, again weather those rainfall rates, rainfall amounts of near 40 inches in some spots eventually crossing cuba and then heading into the bahamas wednesday and thursday, then friday, this could start to be concern for the u.s., anywhere from florida to new england needs to be watching this forecast very closely. not going to show you the spaghetti plots here. i'll show you the american model and the european model and where they take matthew starting thur. you can see very close in the bahamas on thursday. watch as they progress into friday, moving towards the southeast, the carolinas on high alert towards the end of the week. and then thankfully both models are suggesting a turn out to sea as we head toward the weekend, but that may change. we've seen the models changing throughout the day and they will continue to change day by day. all right. you want the spaghetti models, here they are. you can see lots of agreement until the bahamas. then we get this spread, that means lots of uncertainty. probably not until tuesday.
that's when we veal a firm idea of where matthew will be heading in the east coast or if we go out to sea which we are all hoping for. >> if you're travel, look out. next, an in-depth look at trump's taxes. his surrogates coming to his defense after "the new york times" uncovered three separate returns dating back to the 1990s. how much cash the gop nominee throws uncle sam's way. bottle. that no one would ever notice me. but i knew i could be more. that one day, i would make people smile. [woman speaking indistinctly]
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times" report on the republican nominee's 1995 tax record. sol that times report, it included three summary pages of three different state tax returns. page one of trump's 1995 connecticut return, page one of trump's 1995 new jersey return, and page one of trump's 1995 new york return. if you look closely at the last one, line 18 of that return, adjusted gross income, basically what trump made after deductions, negative $915,729,293. negative. here's what it could mean. one, he had a big loss in real estate and other byes, which he did during that time. two, that trump could have legally used this big loss to zero out future years' taxes, although it's not clear if he did so. and number three, this tax rule, it is commonly applied. it affects single property investors to huge developers
like trump. what we don't know is how many years he was able to zero out dmur tax returns, if he did so at all. it could have been for 18 years like "the new york times" suggests, but it could have been a much shorter period of time, even two or three years. joining me now, a former aide to karl rove and former spokesman for george h.w. business. democratic pollster fred yang. giancarlo, isle start with you. legal as what ron insana was telling us, right? used by investors both large and small. should this be is response instead of he is a genius or doing the right thing? >> we haven't seen because we haven't seen the sum total of the picture. we've seen one snapshot of it accidentally or on purpose, dme depending on which story you believe as to how the tax returns came to "the times" reporter. what i find troubling is this
taxish sthu speaks directly to his core supporters. if you're a trump supporter you admire his business acumen or he somehow carries himself in a relatable way that is not like a typical politician. yet as you said, he was either a terrible businessman because he had to write down almost a billion dollars worth ofs or as mitt romney said he's playing the american people for suckers because he's not paying all the tacks he owes. >> this has been p response so far. i want to play a little bit. this is from governor chris christie this morning. >> it shows what an absolute mess the federal tax code is and that's why donald trump is in the best position to fix it. there's no one who's shown more genius in their way to maneuver around the tax code and rightfully use the laws to do that. >> will that work? >> i don't think it will among the people that he need to attract. so the clinton campaign made an
argument during the debate that trump had not participated in the system, has not been giving back by tacks to vets, to infrastructure, to all these things. so i think they can kind of capitalize on that and say, well, you're avoiding paying taxes, these are all the people that are paying taxes. so i think that the clinton campaign can certainly capitalize on this. i think the more important picture here is how trump responds this week. the issue of temperament for donald trump is on display. it has been since the monday night debate, how he handles this, taken in aggregate of all the things we've seen over the past week. >> he's very proud about his business background. >> exactly. it's another way to kind of lure him in and get him to respond and get him off message. >> you think it's going to be, look, you lost a billion dollars, look, you lost billion dollars, look, you lost a billion dollars over and over again. fred, i want to share a poll number with you. nbc news/"wall street journal" poll two weeks ago shows just 6%
of americans are, quote, most concerned about trump not releasing his tax returns. does a story like this hurt him here? >> well, that was two weeks ago, richard, before we knew exactly why he might not have released his tax returns. look, i think with a lot of these stories with actually either candidate it's not the action itself, it's the inability to come forth. this is going to be a boring panel because i agree with caitlyn and giancarlo. >> oh, come on. >> he is in a bad situation. he either avoided paying taxes or he's a bad businessman. the one thing i will say, he showed incredible ability to stay on his script and to sort of plow ahead. he's sort of a ship in a storm. i think this is a big storm for him. i'm not sure he can recover. >> we looked at numbers for this
before, fred. tell me how this has been trending up until this weekend. does this affect the overall approval rating of a candidate in any large portion? >> no. i think, you know, we've seen poll after poll. our nbc/"wall street journal" poll, richard, shows that donald trump's negatives haven't changed much if at all from a year ago. i think what we're -- i'm looking at now are the swing voters, the persuadables, the 5,% 6%, 7% who are undecided. for undecided voters who are looking to vote for, i ti this is another reason they'll remain undecided for voting for donald trump. >> giancarlo, i want to go to one of the tweet prs donald trump this morning. he said, i know our complex tax laws better than anyone who has run for president and am the only one who can fix them. >> we can't be boring on this panel so i'll try to mix it up a little bit. there is an unbelievably narrow
need toll thread here that i think trump could do and come out looking like a winner on this debate. it goes like this. if trump were to say, i've been saying since the beginning the system rigged, know the system is rigged, when i was a private businessman i took advantage of it and nobody knew how to better take advantage of it better than me, but as your president i'm going to fix that rigged system and make it fair for all. >> caitlyn, mitt romney criticized again for his tax returns. it didn't help him in terms of messaging. but i know how to relate. >> and remember when donald trump was pushing mitt romney to release those tax returns at the time. >> right. >> i don't think trump is going to release any more information about this. i think if he can i agree with you, if he can thread that needle and stick to that argument, and that's kind of what the campaign has been trying to message. the genius idea i don't think
really works in that case, but just saying that, look, this is the issue, this is how he would address it, he is the agent of change and that sort of thing. but what we've seen from him in the past is he cannot stick to messages for that long of a time. i think where the clinton campaign will try to go after this as well is talking to not only the voters who are drawn to trump but those who might be inclined because of that change messaged a say, look, he's not who he says he is being, and they'll continue to put the pressure on him to release more returns. i just don't think he will. >> fred, if you throw in giancarlo's suggestion here about what the trump campaign can do, will this help the favorables of hillary clinton based on what caitlyn was saying there? >> it could. it could. but, again, i think for the most part both candidates' images are kind of baked, so to speak. and let me go back to giancarlo, if donald trump listened to him he might be in better shape.
but i think this is the trick. he can say that, and maybe stay on message but then the other issue of but you lost $916 million and you're supposed to be a really good businessman. how do you square that? >> the most exciting panel on msnbc today. i thank you all. in new jersey, federal investigators remain on the ground searching for the cause of thursday's deadly train crash. and we're keeping an eye on hurricane matthew.
inside his bag at the time of the crash. officials say there's still no clear cause for that crash and that one of the train's data recorders was not working at the time. meanwhile, a source close to that investigation tells nbc news that back in june federal regulators discovered dozens of violations and safety concerns. back to hurricane matthew where a hurricane warning is in effect for jamaica, haiti, and eastern pars of cuba, wind speeds reaching 145 miles an hour, and the u.s. state department issuing a travel warning to haiti where the storm threatens to have catastrophic effects. it's authorized family members of u.s. government employees to evacuate the country in preparation for the storm. in cuba, the u.s. ordered a mandatory evacuation there for approximately 700 people from its guantanamo bay naval base. we'll keep our eye on that throughout the hour. dozens are dead after a massive stampede south of the ethiopian capital. it happened during a religious
celebration with an estimated 2 million people in attendance. the celebration turned into a protest against the government following deadly force, officials used during previous demonstrations, calling for wider freedoms across ethiopia. today's stampede happened after police fired tear gas and rubber bullets at demonstrators. next, questions over donald trump and his business dealings in cuba. after a "newsweek" article claimed the gop nominee violated u.s. law back in the '90s. got a look at the claims and the question of if it could hurt trump's chances at the florida polls. ♪ i got the discounts that you need ♪ ♪ safe driver ♪ accident-free ♪ everybody put your flaps in the air for me ♪ ♪ go paperless, don't stress, girl ♪ ♪ i got the discounts that you need ♪ ♪ safe driver ♪ accident-free ♪ everybody put your flaps in the air for me ♪ i can't lip-synch in these conditions. ♪ savings ♪ oh, yeah
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trump says that never happened. >> i never went to cuba or did business with cuba. >> you did not? >> there's nothing else to say. i never did business with cuba. i would tell you openly if i did. >> these claims come as the race tightens in florida. he's appealing to cuban-americans by taking a stance against president obama's efforts to normalize relss with cuba. curt iken wauld joins me from dallas. thanks for being here. that headline that came out raised a lot of eyebrows. the castro connection, right. is it clear to you that whatever business trump undertook in cuba was actually against u.s. law? >> no question. the law is very strict and trump's responses have been so misleading as to be a lie. was he ever in cuba? i didn't say he was. did he ever do a deal in cuba? i didn't say he did. that's not the law. the law is you cannot spend a
dime in cuba for any purpose that's not licensed by the federal government. you can ultimately do some humanitarian work. back in 1998 when he did this, there was a belief that maybe the trade em bardbargo was goin drop, and trump's company sent some consultants down to cuba. they spent $68,000 -- again, you can't spend a dime -- they spent $68,000 to meet with members of fidel castro's government, to meet with financiers, to meet with business people to see if it was possible to start getting the ground prepared to build a casino. when the consultants came back, they put in writing -- and i have the document -- they put in writing here's how we can try and make it look like this trip was sponsored by a charity if necessary. >> that was the language. >> i'm sum rying it.
i mean, we've posted this document online, so if you go to newsweek.com you can find it, but it's indisputable. >> we put a little of it up there, curt. it goes to the point you've been making, not a single dollar. it's $68,000 at least i think is the number. >> yes. from one bill. i mean, there may have been other bills that i don't know about. >> was there only a single trip that you were able to report on? >> there was one trip that i could confirm. now, i do know for a fact that there were trips also in 2011 and 2013. the rules were a little bit different then. but, you know, trump's been trying to get into cuba for a very, very long time. and, you know, he is ready to go as soon as the embargo is dropped, and then he turns an and starts saying how terrible it is obama is trying to get the
embargo removed. there's something else that has to be understood here. some people are saying well, the embargo wasn't any good and why would you support the embargo? this has nothing to do with supporting the embargo. this has to to with did he break the law and after he broke the law, his first run in -- for president in -- was in 1999. seven months after he spent $68,000 in cuba, he stands before a group of cuban-americans opening up his presidential campaign and says i would never spend any money in cuba because any money goes to fidel castro and he's a murderer. this is a guy who flies so close to the flame he actually started hicham pain declaring he would never do something that he had just done. >> let's go local for some of the political fallout. cuban-americans traditionally supporting republicans as you know. with this story coming out, a
florida international university poll has him leading clinton by a few points with that particular voting group. when you look at this, his hard line stance at least verbally and then this report coming out, how might this affect this key voting group in florida? >> well, the cuban-american community in florida is kind of split. there are people who don't care about the embargo, they tear younger ones. older ones care mightily. i think the one thing they should be focusing on is that he used them, he lied to them. there's not a single reason why they should believe anything he's saying because he lied to them before when he was trying to make -- trying to become president. and, you know, the fact that he would treat cuban-americans with such contempt as to, you know, give castro under his own words $68,000 and then turn around and say he's a murderer and i would
never do business with him in order to get applause and votes from cuban-americans, i mean, if i was the cuban-american, i would be really not only insulted but appalled that i was being used like that, that i was being manipulated. >> it has split republicans in florida at least up to this point before perhaps more information comes out. "newsweek's" senior writer shedding some light on that "newsweek" report. thank you. >> thanks for having me. trump's alleged business dealings with cuba could hurt him in florida as we just said but he's also relying on pennsylvania to win next month. he trails hillary clinton by less than two points in a real clear politics polling average in the state. trump campaigned in lancaster county last night to try to get even more points ahead. clinton is also focusing on the keystone state with plans to visit haverford, a suburb of philadelphia, on tuesday. the philly suburbs could decide
who wins pennsylvania but a of its high percentage of white educated voter who is may be in play. clinton leads trump by 22 points in those suburbs according to the latest cnn/orc poll. barack obama beat mitt romney by seven points in the same region we're talking about four years ago according to exit polls. tom fitzgerald from the "philadelphia inquirer," let's start with the state in general, broadly speaking, clinton leading by one percentage point in the most cnn/orc poll. she led by eight points in a monmouth university poll a month earlier, two different sources but why the sudden decline? what are you seeing? >> i think the polls -- we haven't had much new polling lately. the cnn/orc came out as the debate was occurring. and what the 1.8% average lead for clinton down from 8, that's pretty much an artifact of her horrible early september and
late august when she had the health problem and was less than transparent about that. there were new revelations about her home brew e-mail. it's really unclear where things actually stand now. but the fundamentals haven't changed. throughout every poll up to this point, trump has trailed by about 20 points as you mentioned in those suburbs. that's a big speed bump for him. the philadelphia suburbs, it's doubtful that he's going to help his cause there by his debate performance and by hi kind of misogynistic language and -- >> over the weekend with elicia machado. >> over the weekend with that, the his universe. his bizarre rants yesterday. he was in the state in manheim, which is lancaster county.
he needs to do well there. the most republican performing count i. >> his comments alleging or questioning whether secretary clinton had some affairs, at least that's what the intimation is, and all of that doesn't resonate with that key philadelphia suburb area that you're talking about. trurp trump leading by double digits in western pennsylvania. this is consistent or similar to the spaces talking about outside philadelphia here. central pennsylvania as well. he trail base double digits in the philadelphia area for good reason based on the demographics. can he win the state by overperforming in this space as western and central pennsylvania to overcome the deficit in philadelphia? >> yes, if the philadelphia
african-american turnout collapses, if it's true that will there is an enthusiasm problem for hillary clinton and the voters in philadelphia itself don't come out. then theoretically, yes, although it's very hard, because there just aren't many, you know, high school-educated white male voters, not enough of them to overdom population out here in the east. >> tom fitzgerald, thanks for having it. >> thanks for having me. >> you bet. team trump not holding back on its lines of attacks against hillary and bill, p. of the ticket questioning the secretary's commitment to her husband. is it a winning strategy at a time trump needs to win over more women voters? because, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day. using wellness to keep away illness.
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clinton, pointing to her marriage and her husband's past infidelities, trump taking those allegations a step further yesterday questioning her loyalty to the former president. take a listen. >> i don't even sthink she's loyal to bill, you want to know the truth. and really, folks, really, why should she be, right? why should she be? >> that was just last night. my guests back here with us. we have three minutes here, lady and gentlemen, and i want to play something that the clinton campaign has put together. really putting together a collage, a montage of past comments of trump. take a listen. >> she weighed 118 pounds or 117 pounds and she went up to 160 or 170. so this is somebody that likes to eat. we have fun. she gained a massive amount of weight. it was a real problem. we have fun. >> when i said i needed the break for breast pumping purposes, he got up, he shook his finger at me, and he
screamed, "you're disgusting." >> and then we have the latest here, the newest post debate clinton's favorability among women jumping 14 percentage points as you can see there. fred yang, first to you, he's getting hits on this. we don't even have the alicia machado comment in these poll numbers yet. >> i was going to say, richard, i'm not sure the trump slide with women has stopped yet. he will be the first republican candidate in close to 50 years to lose white college-educated voters. and one of the big reasons why he's underperforming with white college-educated women. i got to say, i'm not sure attacking miss universe, attacking hillary clinton, this kind of behavior is going to help him gain those votes back. >> caitlyn, it seems like he
just isn't realizing this is real. he knows he's already been failing with this. >> right. with women specifically. i think, again, remembering the last few minutes of the debate was when this came up, the alicia machado story, right? and since then, he has been just sliding further and further on this issue, attacking a la tino woman repeatedly also on twitter, using it to attack clinton. i think also when you talk to lots of republicans, i think few would say bringing up the clinton infidelities of the '90s are an issue. you talk to republican pollsters who have studied this with women, moderate women, independent republican women even who say it actually endeared them to hillary clinton bringing up that issue. if he goes that route as he's been doing, i think that slide will continue. >> and for millennials, they're going, what's the story? >> absolutely. i think donald trump would do
well to heed the advice of one of his top advisers and surrogates in newt gingrich who literally lost the speakership because he overplayed his hand within the republican party with regard to this issue of bill clinton and infidelity. it was a loser across the board. i would add on a personal note, there are many in the trump campaign that think that we proud establishment members are having some sort of moment of glee in opposing this campaign. and we are not. i'm a father of two daughters and wehen i hear those comments it makes me sick and it does make me proud to pose that man. >> thank you so much. y'all have a good sunday. next, mounting questions this hour about the cases the supreme court will hear this new term and what could happen with seat of antonin scalia.
as a supervisor at pg&e, it's my job to protect public safety, keeping the power lines clear, while also protecting the environment. the natural world is a beautiful thing, the work that we do helps us protect it. public education is definitely a big part of our job, to teach our customers about the best type of trees
to plant around the power lines. we want to keep the power on for our customers. we want to keep our community safe. this is our community, this is where we live. we need to make sure that we have a beautiful place for our children to live. together, we're building a better california. it has been 6 1/2 months since merit garland was nominated to succeed antonin scalia on the supreme court. but with the senate unwilling to
schedule a vote, the high court remains evenly divided heading into the new term which begins tomorrow. joining me mark furnish. thanks for being with us. the court will be hearing cases on transgender bathroom laws, whether businesses can refuse services. >> we don't know if they will. >> potentially. these are cases out there. what do you think on those two? >> a lot depends. they have the long conference at the end of every summer, all the petitions that have accumulated over the summer and that's being held tomorrow so we'll get a good idea of what the docket will look like after tomorrow. >> some of the commentary is they may be ducking some of the quote/unquote tougher issues. what's your thought in terps of whether they will do that and what might they go to based on what we're looking at for the docket so far? >> it's not a sexy docket. it's low-wattage docket. i don't know if they're ducking them so much as kicking them down the road. there's a controversial church separation case that was granted before scalia died and they haven't even scheduled the argument yet and have put
subsequent cases on the docket before that one. so they're maybe delaying. >> delaying for that confirmation of that ninth justice? >> sort of the collegiality. they want to know what the balance of the court is going to look like. i think this will be resolved. >> more pressure on congress as we move forward? >> i don't think so. i think we're going to wait until the election and i think if they get control of the senate, the democrats, i think garland will be confirmed. >> what happens. so garland does not get confirmed. we have a new president that comes in. say it's hillary clinton. does she keep garland or have another -- >> there's a good likelihood she'll keep garland. he's popular among the democrat, even though he's a moderate. he's well qualified that that would be a less bruising fight for her in the first instance. i expect if the democrats win one or both -- if they win the senate garland will be the next one. if trump wins the presidency,
obviously all bets are off with the supreme court. >> if we have president clinton, hillary clinton, merrick garland stays in. >> i think so. he's older for a nominee so that's the knock on him for democrats. >> confirmation by midyear, then what happens? >> then he starts hearing cases. i don't think the balance of the court in its ideological center will shift nearly as radically as people are predicting. the court tends to do things slowly and incrementally and he's very moderate. i don't think you'll see the radical overhaul some people are talking about. >> what about the docket itself? will that change? can they edit it? >> the dock set very light right now. much, much lighter than usual. so we'll start filling up and i expect them to keep taking these sort of plain vanilla cases until the vacancy is filled. >> do you see that vacancy being filled before the president obama leaves snaufs. >> no, i don't see that. i don't see that there's any reason for the republicans to back down at this point.
and for them, it's a no-lose situation. >> except for maybe a miscalculation. remember that happened i think two years ago, a miscalculation by the house. we're talking about the senate here toe though. >> i think if they lose control of the senate the republicans will then vote to confirm garland for fear of what a president clinton could nominate that would be worse from their perspective. >> i was alluding to the surgeon general when he was confirmed by the senate during what was a mistake, if you will, by -- >> i don't think they'll make any mistakes. i think they don't see a downside to waiting, and i think this will drag on until the end of the year. ? thank you so much. appreciate your time today. mark furnish. >> thanks for having me. >> that does it for us for this hour on "msnbc live." "dateline" extra begins after a quick break. m on a rack.
i learned that he was arrested. i was shocked. i was so confused. i didn't think it was real. i didn't think it was possible. >> in the rarefied world of the ivy league, he was the total package -- star student, gifted athlete, wildly popular. >> he was one of the nicest guys ever. >> no one could understand how a weekend visit to his parents' house -- >> you say you heard a shot? >> yes. >> -- ended in gunfire. >> who's already there? >> charlie told the officers outside he was going to kill my mom, i had to do it. >> yes. >> a brave son protecting his mom. a harrowing story. but was it true? >> he's seated behind a desk, the father.